[Tr: (Tasleem Sabri speaking…)]

The Muslim Ummah, the Muslim leaders and especially the lovers of Sahaba and AhleBayt have been struck by a fitnah for the past month ever since Allama Ashraf Asif Jalali saheb has uttered the words that Sayyidah Fatimah was wrong when she demanded the ownership of Fadak.  As far as the words go, they have their own implications as well as the manner in which they have been spoken.  Sometimes even the words that are generally considered as respectful but if utilized in a vile manner, they discredit the honour of those words.  The way words are spoken indicates the thought process behind it.  There is no doubt that his words have hurt in the manner they were spoken with all its severity and crudeness in the tone when he repeated multiple times “She was wrong! She was wrong! She was wrong!”  It has pierced the hearts of millions and millions which has inflicted great pain.  Many Ulama and Ummah at large have responded to it and protested over it to their own capacity. We are fortunate to have our Ulama who have condemned it.  Now we are arranged the platform to discuss the depths of all the details pertaining to the issue on hand. 

Today, we have among us one of the most reliable and revered personalities of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah who is known as Hujjatul Islam Hazrat Allamah Pir Sayyed Irfan Shah Mashhadi Saheb Qiblah who has given his all in serving the Deen of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – by defending his honour, the honour of his Sahaba and AhleBayt, for the past 4-5 decades.  Another great personality that we have before us is Hazrat Allamah Pir Sayyed Munawwar Husain Shah Jama’ati Saheb Qiblah.  Huzoor we are thankful to you for gracing us with your presence.  They are leading this movement and also being from amongst the noble progeny of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.


We would like to begin from the point of the accused using the kind of words and in the manner they were spoken, what are the implications thereof?



[Tr: (Hazrat Pir Irfan Shah Mashhadi speaking…)

[Tr: Introduction of Ahlus Sunnah Aqaid]

Allah, in whose Name we begin the Most Compassionate the Merciful

[Tr: (…thanking the host and the co-host…)]

Our Deen is Islam, our creed is Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, we are Matureedi in as far as the principles of our creed is concerned, and we practice Hanafi fiqh as far as the Islamic laws are concerned.  In this regard, Imam Azam Abu Hanifah Hazrat No’man ibn Thabit – may Allah be pleased with him – is our Imam and leader.  With regards to the principles of our creed, Imam Abu Mansoor Matureedi – may Allah be pleased with him – is our Imam and leader whereas there is Imam Abul Hasan Ash’ari – may Allah be pleased with him – who is also the Imam of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, even though we, as Hanafis, prefer to follow Imam Abu Mansoor Matureedi.  Apart from this, the Imams of all four schools of thought; Imam Shafe’i, Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal and Imam Malik ibn Anas, despite their differences in secondary matters of Fiqh, they are united in Islamic creed.  Our scholars of Islamic principles; whether they are the scholars of Islamic Fiqh or Islamic Creed, have done a great deal of work in terms of our Islamic conduct.  The Soofies have played a greater role in this regard than the scholars of Islamic principles.  The scholars of Islamic principles are more concerned with the words and actions and their implications rather than the manner or conduct in which something has been done or said.  Mainly the Soofies and Awliya have inculcated the teaching of reverence and respect in us, the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah. 

[Tr: The Holy Quran Teaches us the Manner in which we must behave in the Court of RasooAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him]

As far as the manner of speaking is concerned, then the Holy Quran itself has taught us the manner in which we must behave in the court of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him:

لَا تَرْفَعُوۡۤا اَصْوٰتَکُمْ فَوْقَ صَوْتِ النَّبِیِّ

  Raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet.

(Al-Hujurat 49, Verse 2)

Furthermore, He stated:

اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ یُنَادُوۡنَکَ مِنۡ وَّرَآءِ الْحُجُرٰتِ اَکْثَرُہُمْ لَا یَعْقِلُوۡنَ ﴿۴﴾

Indeed most of those who call you from outside the chambers have no sense.

(Al-Hujuraat 49, Verse 4)

It is generally considered respectful if someone knocks at the door before entering but when it comes to the honour of the court of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – Allah Almighty states:

وَلَوْ اَنَّہُمْ صَبَرُوۡا حَتّٰی تَخْرُجَ اِلَیۡہِمْ لَکَانَ خَیۡرًا لَّہُمْ ؕ

  And if they had patience, until you yourself come out to them, that had been better for them.

(Al-Hujuraat 49, Verse 5)

Meaning, if they had patience and waited for him outside until the beloved Mustafa – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – came towards them, it would be much better for them.  One can assess from it the honour and greatness of the beloved Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  The Holy Quran does not only teach us the manners of worshipping Allah Almighty but also the manners through which to observe the respect and honour of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him, even to the degree of one’s volume of voice that should be observed when speaking to him in his court with such detail that the Sahaba practiced.  It is for this reason that we learn in Ahadith that the way Sahaba sat in his court one would think that birds are seated on their heads.  This was the way they observed the respect of his court.  No one ever looked him into the eye and talked to him.  It was not something the likes of which can be seen in worldly courts, they were only reserved for his court.  You can see the same manner observed at Hudaibiyah as well.  However, enough details have been given so far which should suffice without elaborating more on it.  There are other such verses which continue to guide the Ummah.


[Tr: (Tasleem Sabri speaking…)]

As I was saying with regards to the manner in which Jalali saheb uttered those words, people say that they are equally hurt by the way he uttered those words as well as the words spoken by themselves or even worse.  Here, you are also saying that we are taught the manners.


(Hazrat Pir Irfan Shah Mashhadi speaking…)

[Tr: Refraining from personal attack while addressing the flaw in one’s methodology]

Fundamentally, I am more inclined to examine the methodology itself rather than focusing on the personality i.e. so and so has uttered such things in such fashion.  Our focus should be more towards reforming the manner in which one utters things generally.  In my opinion, they are young lads whose names you have taken.  I have known him since his childhood days…  Instead of criticizing the personalities individually we would rather tackle the manner and method in which things have been said and done.  People are generally accustomed to a particular way of life and sometimes they are influenced by their surroundings, profession and other factors that play a major part in their conditioning.  As it is the time of social media, and I have repeatedly seen what you have described before my own eyes. 

[Tr: Only the Prophets and Angels are infallible]

I can honestly say with my insight into the matter clarifying that Sayyidah Fatimah – may Allah be pleased with her – was neither a Prophet nor a Messenger.  It is not our belief that she received Wahy or had authority in Shariah matters.  There was no Prophet amongst womenfolk.  Secondly, she was not infallible by Shariah definition.  Only the Prophets, Messengers and Angels are infallible as per Shariah guideline.  Being infallible is a standard Shariah terminology, and she does not fall under that. 

[Tr: The Honour of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him]

I would like to explain this generally through my insight into the matter that the honour of the Prophets and Messengers of Allah, especially of our master the beloved Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – is in fact the honour of Allah the Exalted

وَ لِلہِ الْعِزَّۃُ وَ لِرَسُوۡلِہٖ وَ لِلْمُؤْمِنِیۡنَ وَ لٰکِنَّ الْمُنٰفِقِیۡنَ لَا یَعْلَمُوۡنَ ٪﴿۸﴾

  The honour is for Allah, and His Messenger and Muslims, but the hypocrites know not.

(Al-Munafiqoon 63, Verse 8)

It is stated in the Holy Quran.  Allah Almighty is the ultimate owner of every honour and then Allah Almighty states in the Quran i.e. After Allah’s honour follows the honour of His Messenger Hazrat Muhammad – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – which Allah Almighty has bestowed upon him, and through his honour, the believers are also bestowed with honour and dignity. 

[Tr: The Honour of a Muslim]

We tend to overlook the honourable status of a common Muslim when we discuss a dignified personality of Islam that a common Muslim also deserves this honour through the medium of the beloved Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  This Hadeeth of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – where he stated addressing the Holy Ka’bah, “O Ka’bah, you are indeed honourable but the honour of a single Muslim, his belongings and his blood, it is higher in honour than that of yours.”  Meaning, the honour of a believer is greater than the honour of the Holy Ka’bah.  The Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – has clarified it in numerous Ahadith, even on the day ‘Arafaat in the plain of ‘Arafaat “As this day is an honourable day, this month is an honourable month and this house of Allah (The Holy Ka’bah) is an honourable house, bear witness O Ka’bah.  The Holy Prophet Muhammad – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – is mentioning the honour of a Muslim. 

[Tr: Sayyidah Fatimah is the heart of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him]

If the honour of a common Muslim like myself and his belongings and blood is greater than that of the Holy Ka’bah according to RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – then what would be the honour and reverence of the heart of the cream of creation – it is not a lecture or exaggeration – these are proofs.  We are not referring to her as being the heart of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – based upon our love and reverence for her, for these are Proofs from Hadith.  Some might say that I am only calling her as being the heart of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – might be due to my love for her but the reality here is that I will go even further when it comes to my love and reverence for her.  These are mere proofs, one cannot become a Muslim without accepting them [Tr: the proofs].  The Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – stated regarding her, that she is a part of my being اِنَّمَا فَاطِمَۃُ بُضْعَۃٌ مِّنِّیْ.  This the Hadith of Bukhari shareef.  The narrator of the Hadeeth is Sayyiduna Miswar ibn Makhramah who is a Sahabi, he reported that the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – stated, “Fatimah is my heart.”  What he stated actually was that she is a part of his being but our elders say that he meant by that, that she is a piece of his heart فِلْذَۃِ کَبِدِ خَیْرِ الْاَنْبِیَاءِ  [a piece of the heart of the best of Prophets].

Allah Almighty never created anyone better than RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – in communication and eloquence.  There is never a doubt in anything he stated regarding anything or anyone.  He never used the same words for a variety of people.  As he stated that she is a part of his being, and similarly he mentioned regarding Sayyiduna ‘Ali – may Allah be pleased with him – in Tirmidhi saying, “Ali is from me and I am from himعَلِیٌّ مِّنِّیْ وَاَنَا مِنْہُ.”  Another Hadith also in Jame’ Tirmidhi, “Husain is from me and I am from Husain” حُسَیْنٌ مِّنِّیْ وَاَنَا مِنْ حُسَیْنٍ.”  In this as well he mentioned that he is a part of him but not in the same wordings.

[Tr: Whatever hurts Sayyidah Fatimah is hurtful to RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him]

“Whatever hurts her hurts me. یُؤْذِیْنِیْ مَا اَذَاھَا.”  Meaning, her troubles become his.  And what happens when RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – is hurt:

اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ یُؤْذُوۡنَ اللہَ وَ رَسُوۡلَہٗ لَعَنَہُمُ اللہُ فِی الدُّنْیَا وَ الْاٰخِرَۃِ وَ اَعَدَّ لَہُمْ عَذَابًا مُّہِیۡنًا ﴿۵۷﴾

  Undoubtedly, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger, Allah’s curse is upon them in the world and in the Hereafter and Allah has kept prepared for them a degrading torment.

(Al-Ahzab 33, Verse 57)

When Allah Almighty stated, “Those who annoy Allah”, so how does Allah Almighty get annoyed?  If annoyance has anything to do with feelings and bodily harms then it is established that Allah Almighty is free from embodiment and bodily qualities.  So what does all this mean?  RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – stated that hurting Sayyidah Fatimah is equal to hurting RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him, and Allah Almighty is stating that hurting RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – is equal to annoying Allah Almighty.



(Tasleem Sabri interjecting…)

What you have formed as a prologue which acts as a foundation of our discussion pertaining to issues of this nature, as you suggested that we are here to investigate the issue itself rather than criticizing the personality directly.

(Shah Saheb clarifying that we are discussing the methodology, no matter who it may fit, we are here to inform all.)

If there is anyone saying that Sayyidah Fatimah was wrong in demanding Fadak and then when he moved onto elaborating on it then it was said that Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq – may Allah be pleased with him – safeguarded her from consuming a haram morsel.  These words are harsh and definitely hurtful to RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.



(Pir Sayyed Mashhadi saheb speaking…)

[Tr: AhleBayt are utterly pure]

I would like to quote some snippet from the same prologue before you, that the blessed personalities of AhleBayt whom you also refer to them as the pure souls, they have a special kind of status of purity.  There is special status for them in the Holy Quran in the verse:

وَ یُطَہِّرَکُمْ تَطْہِیۡرًا ﴿ۚ۳۳﴾

…and by cleansing you make you utterly pure.

(Al-Ahzab 33, Verse 33)

[Tr: AhleBayt of Khairul Quroon – the best of eras]

I would like to briefly mention something keeping the time constraint in mind that whenever we are speaking with regards to people of the best of eras (Khairun Quroon), as it is the statement of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him:

خَیْرُ الْقُرُوْنِ قَرْنِیْ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

The best of eras is that in which I am…

The era which the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – lived through his physical life and those believers that existed in that blessed era, they are special people; be it the Sahaba fraternity or the AhleBayt of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  I would like to clarify one thing that the status of Sahaba is very lofty but the AhleBayt who shared that very era with them have twice as much of loftiness.  Firstly, they are all Sahaba, one should never forget that, and they are AhleBayt (from the blessed bloodline of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him). 

[Tr: The Reward of AhleBayt is double]

They also enjoy twice as reward for their virtues than the Sahaba.  The Holy bears it in the following words in the first verse of Juz 22 that O AhleBayt you are special:

وَمَنۡ یَّقْنُتْ مِنۡکُنَّ لِلہِ وَ رَسُوۡلِہٖ وَ تَعْمَلْ صٰلِحًا نُّؤْتِہَاۤ اَجْرَہَا مَرَّتَیۡنِ ۙ

  And whosoever of you remains obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good deeds, We shall double her reward in comparison to others.

(Al-Ahzab 33, Verse 31)

The Quran addresses the mothers of believers.  i.e. if a believer does something good then:

مَنۡ جَآءَ بِالْحَسَنَۃِ فَلَہٗ عَشْرُ اَمْثَالِہَا ۚ

  Whoso brings one good, then for him there are ten like thereof.

(Al-An’am 6, Verse 160)

So if a common Muslim does something good then his reward is ten-fold but if AhleBayt do something good then his or her reward multiplies twenty-fold.  If someone wants to see proof of this then the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah can see it in the Ahadith as well.  The Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – stated regarding Sayyiduna Ja’fer al-Taiyar – may Allah be pleased with him: “I saw him flying high in Paradise in comparison with Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Rawahah and Zaid ibn Harithah – may Allah be pleased with them.”  Did you know that they were martyred during the battle of Muta against the Romans.  The Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – prayed to Allah, “O my Lord, all three who have been martyred in the same battle were from my family.”  Sayyiduna Ja’fer was his own, Sayyiduna Zaid as you would know that RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – adopted him as his son.  There are verses regarding him.  Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Rawahah is a very special Sahabi.  Why the flight of Sayyiduna Ja’fer in Paradise is higher than the other two?  The answer to this is that they all equally share the status of being Sahabi but Sayyiduna Ja’fer is given extra status due to him being the AhleBayt of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  He has twice as much of greatness by being a Sahabi as well as AhleBayt.

The reason as to why I clarified the lofty status of the Sahaba because they deserve all the greatness but as you should know the virtues of everyone is not the same.  There are levels.  Those who brought Iman prior to the conquest of Makkah Mukarramah:

وَ مَا لَکُمْ اَلَّا تُنۡفِقُوۡا فِیۡ سَبِیۡلِ اللہِ وَ لِلہِ مِیۡرٰثُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الْاَرْضِ ؕ لَا یَسْتَوِیۡ مِنۡکُمْ مَّنْ اَنۡفَقَ مِنۡ قَبْلِ الْفَتْحِ وَ قٰتَلَ ؕ اُولٰٓئِکَ اَعْظَمُ دَرَجَۃً مِّنَ الَّذِیۡنَ اَنۡفَقُوۡا مِنۡۢ بَعْدُ وَ قٰتَلُوۡا ؕ وَکُلًّا وَّعَدَ اللہُ الْحُسْنٰی ؕ وَ اللہُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُوۡنَ خَبِیۡرٌ ﴿٪۱۰﴾

  And what is to you, that you spend not in the way of Allah, whereas to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth altogether. Those of you who spent and fought before the victory of Mecca are not equal. They are greater in rank than those who spent and fought after victory. And to all has Allah already promised the reward of the paradise. And Allah is Aware of your deeds.

(Al-Hadeed 57, Verse 10)

No one has any say in the matter apart from the fact that the Sahaba enjoy the elevated status but as far as those who sit at home, they are on a different level.  There are differences in their levels as it is evident from the Holy Quran:

لَا یَسْتَوِی الْقٰعِدُوۡنَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِیۡنَ غَیۡرُ اُولِی الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجٰہِدُوۡنَ فِیۡ سَبِیۡلِ اللہِ بِاَمْوٰلِہِمْ وَاَنۡفُسِہِمْ ؕ فَضَّلَ اللہُ الْمُجٰہِدِیۡنَ بِاَمْوٰلِہِمْ وَاَنۡفُسِہِمْ عَلَی الْقٰعِدِیۡنَ دَرَجَۃً ؕ وَکُلًّا وَّعَدَ اللہُ الْحُسْنٰی ؕ وَفَضَّلَ اللہُ الْمُجٰہِدِیۡنَ عَلَی الْقٰعِدِیۡنَ اَجْرًا عَظِیۡمًا ﴿ۙ۹۵﴾

  Those Muslims who sit aloof from the fighting without excuse and those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives are not equal Allah exalted in rank those who strive with their wealth and lives over those who sit aloof. And Allah promised good to all, And Allah has preferred the strivers over the sitters by a great reward.

(Al-Nisa 4, Verse 95)

Quran itself states these differences of status and levels through the following verse as well:

وَالسّٰبِقُوۡنَ الۡاَوَّلُوۡنَ

And the first and foremost.

(Al-Taubah 9, Verse 100)

وَ السّٰبِقُوۡنَ السّٰبِقُوۡنَ ﴿۱۰﴾ۙ

  And those who took the lead they have already taken the lead.

 اُولٰٓئِکَ الْمُقَرَّبُوۡنَ ﴿ۚ۱۱﴾

  They are the favourite trusted persons.

(Al-Waqi’ah 56, Verse 10-11)

No one can challenge this.  This the Holy Quran. 

[Tr: The Sacrifices of Sayyidah Fatimah]

The status of Sayyidah Fatimah in being a Sahabiyyah and being AhleBayt, moreover, being the best amongst the AhleBayt, her status in Islam and by Allah, her perseverance at the times of trials and tribulations and her being with RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – in every difficulty – when someone put something evil on the blessed back of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – in the vicinity of the Holy Ka’bah, she was 5-6 year old little girl at the time who took it out, it was none other than the Queen of Paradise Sayyidah Fatimah – may Allah be pleased with her.  She was the one who bore all the hardship for 3 consecutive years in She’b abi Talib (a valley in Makkah Mukarramah) when the Quraish boycotted RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  She used to console her sisters to not reveal the severity of their hunger and thirst before RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  She was younger in age but encouraged her younger sisters to have Sabr.  Is there anyone who thinks that she did not bear a difficulty which Sayyidah did not?  I would like to make it clear to everyone that we as Sayyed are not getting emotional it not entirely true but their sacrifices were indeed such that none can deny.  We do not say this on account of being AhleBayt or Sayyed.  People have been sitting in their homes for about 2-3 months in lockdown and the state of mayhem can be noticed and here we are talking about 3 years in She’b Abi Talib.  You can still receive food by making a call to the food delivery services and yet you complain that there are restrictions but here they were totally boycotted and isolated socially at such a young age, and she was so sensitive to the feelings of RasoolAllah that she decided not to trouble him anymore by showing her sad face.  I would like to enlighten those who are learned that she falls under:

وَالسّٰبِقُوۡنَ الۡاَوَّلُوۡنَ

And the first and foremost.

(Al-Taubah 9, Verse 100)

And she played vital role at every juncture where a sacrifice was required, and she sought knowledge directly from RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  One should never forget that…  Whoever loves her loves RasoolAllah, whoever is against her is against RasoolAllah, whoever hurts her hurts RasoolAllah.

[Tr: It is an open insult to Sayyidah Fatimah to say that she was wrong]

When this is her status then regardless of whoever the person is, whose utterances have caused great pain to so many hearts, I would like to say that it is an open insult to say that she was wrong.  It is not at all befitting her honour and dignity.

[Tr: The stance of Ahlus Sunnah on the issue of infallibility]

Some of our young scholars who are still busying themselves in their studies at different institutes, may say that now we are considering her infallible which is not the case at all.  What would anyone have to gain by supposedly regarding them as infallible?  Some go to great lengths in an attempt to find faults in those that are truly infallible (by Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah such as the Prophets of Allah) then what is the use if someone calls them infallible?  It can help only if people stop fault-finding in the truly infallible, but then one might say, of what use it is to categorize someone as infallible?  We Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah do not consider her as infallible by any means.  Bear in mind that the infallible by Shariah definition are the Prophets, Messengers and Angels.  So do not jump to the conclusion that we are regarding her as infallible.  Some people are even in the habit of fault-finding in those that are truly infallible by giving reference of certain Tafsir book and so forth which mentions the possibility of error by a Prophet, and that too, they say it without any precondition. 

[Tr: The issue of Ijtihadi error – Ijtihad as a Fiqh terminology vs. its literal meaning]

One person said that I am considering their error as an interpretational (ijtihadi) error so there I have attached a condition as to what is the nature of this error.  Interpretational error would only occur if the Prophets ever needed to interpret the laws of Shariah.  As it is in the case of Allah’s Prophets, then they do not even utter a single word without Allah’s permission, let alone interpreting Shariah laws on their own accord. 

We do not take Fiqh terminology of ijtihad or interpretation in this as it is known the fourth principle of Fiqh after Quran, Sunnah and Ijma’.  It originates from the word “Juhd”, meaning striving.  It is the ijtihad in its literal sense which one may confuse with that of the Fiqh terminology.  The Prophets only follow Allah’s Wahy, and in the presence of Wahy, what is the need for personal interpretation (ijtihad)?  People who strive to find the literal meaning in pursuit of knowledge during the blessed era of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – will be considered Ijtihad in general sense; such as, whenever the Wahy was revealed upon the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – he would quickly repeat them.  Allah Almighty then stated, my beloved:

لَا تُحَرِّکْ بِہٖ لِسَانَکَ لِتَعْجَلَ بِہٖ ﴿ؕ۱۶﴾

  Move not your tongue with Quran that you may hasten to learn it.

(Al-Qiyamah 75, Verse 16)

He used to strive hard to memorize it so he may not forget it:

اِنَّ عَلَیۡنَا جَمْعَہٗ وَ قُرْاٰنَہٗ ﴿ۚۖ۱۷﴾

  Undoubtedly, it is upon Us to preserve it and to recite.

 فَاِذَا قَرَاۡنٰہُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْاٰنَہٗ ﴿ۚ۱۸﴾

  So when We have already recited it follow then its recital.

 ثُمَّ اِنَّ عَلَیۡنَا بَیَانَہٗ ﴿ؕ۱۹﴾

  Then it is upon Us, to make clear its minute details.

(Al-Qiyamah 75, Verse 17-19)

Meaning, it is not up to your hard work but it solely depends upon Allah’s bestowal.  Allah Almighty stopped him from making literal ijtihad as well by stating that Allah Almighty Himself will teach him so well that he will never forget it. 

[Tr: RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – as well as Sayyiduna Jibreel – peace be upon him – are infallible]

So, the Prophets are infallible, and it is unthinkable for them to make an error in the matters of Deen or in Da’wah and Shariah related issues.  Why do I say that?  If you continue talking like this, then all the Mustashriqeen (those imposters who wear the garb of a Muslim with the intent to uproot Islam from within) of the world are looking for a loophole that if there is a possibility that they may err in their propagation of Islam and Shariah laws then how do you prove the authenticity of Quran, Torah, Zaboor and (Injeel) Bible?  How can they be reliable sources of Holy texts?  How reliable can the Wahy itself be?  The one who brought the Wahy Sayyiduna Jibreel, what if he possibly erred? 

Sayyiduna Jibreel – peace be upon him – who brought the Wahy is infallible, the one upon whom it was revealed is infallible, which means that they are under divine Protection of Allah Almighty, that protection is never discontinued from them because the One who is protecting them is Allah Almighty Himself, and Allah Almighty is free from sleep, sleepiness and any kind of weakness.  Protection only becomes compromised when the one providing protection falls asleep or becomes weak.  Allah Almighty the All Mighty, All Powerful.  If He is protecting them then the divine protection is never to be suspended even for a moment.  Even if they are asleep their heart is awake.  How can you forget that the concept of the discontinuation of the divine protection is not possible because they are infallible. 

[Tr: Difference between Ma’soom (infallible) and Mahfooz (protected)]

Some of our folks argue about the difference between Ma’soom (infallible) and Mahfooz (protected) then the difference is in its Qat’iyyat (definiteness) and Ghair Qat’iyyat (indefiniteness).  If it doesn’t come within the reach of your intellectual grasp then refer to its definition in the book of Allama Abdul Aziz Parharwi rahimahullah entitled Al-Nibras which is commentary of Sharh al-‘Aqaid al-Nasafiyyah, then you will get to understand it.  Even though Ma’soom means Mahfooz but the difference is only this much.  I would say to those youngsters who often act like boys with toys who always get a kick out of discussions like this then listen, the difference is only its Qat’iyyat and Ghair Qat’iyyat.  When we regard them (Ambiya and Angels) then this Aqeedah is definite (Qat’i) as we say that they are protected from any error.  It is the very thing which Allama Abdul Aziz Parharwi rahimahullah explained in Al-Nibras the commentary of Sharh al-‘Aqaid al-Nasafiyyah that the difference is only in its Wujoob (necessity of infallibility) and Jawaaz (possibility of being divinely protected).  If you have any intellect and insight into the matter then you will grasp its meaning.  So this is the difference in these terminologies and the guideline to follow for the placement of any verdict concerning this issue.

[Tr: The implication of accusation against Sayyidah Fatimah]

In this regard, to accuse her of being wrong without any pretext then no, she did nothing wrong.  I say this again and I will say it now that there is no need to bring about issues like this on social media and it is completely uncalled for.  This is an academic discussion which should be discussed in its proper setting, time and place.  These are the things one need not to debate over it but rather sit with the teacher and grasp a firm understanding of it.  It is not wise to just see something somewhere once and start rambling over it all over the social media without a care in the world.  One need to first consider investigating it further.  Is this how research is carried out?  It is due to these unfortunate circumstances that I also had to appear on social media today to counter this blunder.  You leave me no choice, if one’s ears are shut to take counsel, then we have the duty to protect others.  The Ummah has the right to know right from wrong.  We are here only to fulfil that duty, and not to boost our social media ranking.  People fancy these things up to a certain age but when one reaches the truth he can see it all, for then there is no need for all of this.  I humbly request you to understand the sensitivity of these issues.  How on earth is asking for something considered a fault?  If a daughter asks for something which her father rightfully left for her then who will dare call it wrong? 

[Tr: Special provision in Shariah law concerning the AhleBayt]

Their laws are special; for example, I will explain to you a few things while we are discussing this.  The Holy Quran gives the following verdict:

فَانْکِحُوۡا مَا طَابَ لَکُمۡ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ مَثْنٰی وَثُلٰثَ وَرُبٰعَ ۚ فَاِنْ خِفْتُمْ اَلَّا تَعْدِلُوۡا فَوٰحِدَۃً

  Then marry such other women as seem good to you, two, three, four, but if you are afraid that you will not be able to keep two wives on equal terms, then marry one only.

(Al-Nisa 4, Verse 3)

When Sayyidah Fatimah – may Allah be pleased with her – was informed about the wedding proposal of the daughter of ‘Amr ibn Hisham’s daughter to Sayyiduna Ali – may Allah be pleased with him – then she felt resentful towards it and went to the house of her beloved father RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – and presented this matter before him.  It was at that time when she addressed Sayyiduna Ali – may Allah be pleased with him – as the cousin brother of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – and discussed this matter with him.  What RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – had to say in this regard?  He gave the verdict of the Holy Quran that if a man wants he could have up to four women in his marriage, but ‘Ali, you cannot.  The Quran gives verdict that a man can marry up to four women but RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – is telling Sayyiduna Ali that he cannot.  What is the reason behind this?  It is to safeguard the status of Sayyidah Fatimah – may Allah be pleased with her.  That if she disliked it then whomever you will marry, she will be devastated.  It’s not that I am trying to give Fatimah preference and special provision but I am saying this to save those daughters with whom you have the Shariah provision to marry, and it will not be fair to them.  All of this is a recorded fact in Ahadith, and if a student wishes to study it then he may do so, I am saying this with utmost care.  Did Sayyidah not know her special status?  Yes, she knew that she was given a different verdict to the general ruling of the Holy Quran.  If there was a verdict in Quran or Hadith that the inheritance of Prophets does not carry over to their offspring, then she has no hesitation in accepting the fact, and as she has witnessed it in her life previously that in the face of general ruling of the Holy Quran she enjoys her special provision in Shariah and her special status is there to stay.  Why should it bother him despite all of this?  He is well aware of these facts.  There are other examples of this nature in the Holy Quran but I am briefly mentioning it here. 

[Tr: Do you have the slightest clue as to whose views you are echoing here?]

In his statement, he said that she was at fault.  I ask how was she at fault?  Come to one thing with regards to which she was at fault?  Then two days later you said that no, she was not at fault.  Tell us why do you change it later if you had persisted previously that she was wrong?  Thirdly, you say that it was an interpretational (ijtihaadi) mistake, and to prove it, you are showing the writing of our predecessor who recently passed away a few years ago that he wrote such and such, sometimes you gave reference of one of our predecessor who existed in the 9th AH.  Just earlier someone informed me about it that so and so has written this.  There is one thing you all need to understand, and I would like to include those youngsters with deep compassion.  Some people nowadays have completely forgotten to differentiate friends from enemies but here I am addressing those who have not forgotten it yet.  

Whether it is an ijtihaadi mistake or something else, do you have the slightest clue as to whose views you are echoing here?  You didn’t even realize it but for me to notice it was very painful to come to terms with it.  (Punjabi proverb…)  The stance of making statements such as: ijtihaadi mistake, whom does it support?  Do you even have a clue? 

You often accuse people of befriending a Rafidhi etc. but what you have done here, is you have become the Rafidhi’s spokesperson.  And listen to me, I am not saying this out of my emotions, to prove ijtihad for Sayyidah and then to deem her to be wrong at it, the one who stands to gain most from it are the Rafidhis, for then they can say that she was Mujtahidah, it is you who is saying that she was at fault, so it means that whoever acts on the verdict of a Mujtahid then he stands to gain at least one reward even if that Mujtahid is a Mufti, according to the principles of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah.  It will now mean that if according to you which you have accepted her as a Mujtahid indirectly by bringing in the angle of ijtihadi mistake, the Shia take it as the mainstream viewpoint – I will encourage those who spoke to me over the phone earlier on to listen to it – if ijtihad is established for her then those follow her in Shariah, you then cannot blame them for it.  They can go on and say that the belief system they have is also based on ijtihad.  Shayad ki tere dil me utar jaaye teri baat ([poetic proverb] I wish you would pay attention to what I say).

[Tr: One should focus on the preferred view (Madhhab Mukhtar)]

You are carrying on rambling that so and so said she was at fault, so on and so forth.  Now listen to me, one should not rely on the number of quotations and citations but should rather focus on what is the preferred view (Mukhtar).  Don’t you know this much?  You can find hundreds of views and citations on a single issue.  Just pick up Bukhari shareef there is a galore of views, that such and such Muhaddith said that the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – did not physically ascend to the heavens (physical Me’raj).  There are great personalities who support this view.  So, rather than worrying about who says what, stick to the preferred and recommended viewpoint of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah that he physically ascended above the heavens whilst he was awake and saw Allah Almighty with his own eyes without blinking.  If we depended on various views then the point where Imam Bukhari began the discussion, he gathered numerous views.  We do not bother ourselves with different views but rather accept the preferred viewpoint of the majority of scholars and Imams of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah (Jamhur).  If you carry on like this, that so and so said such and such, so listen to me, they are shaking your foundations, and you don’t even realize it.  There is a possibility of ijtihadi mistake but it did not occur.  Why go through these lengths of proving something on the basis of possibility.  How is it an ijtihadi mistake if a daughter asks for her share from her father’s property?  So if according to you, when your daughter asks for her share from your assets, is she required to perform some kind of ijtihad?  Excellent!  There is no need for ijtihad or proof.  We as Muslims know that our daughters have their share in inheritance according to Shariah.  You may now say that it was a particular type of matter as the Hadith narrates with regards to Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq – may Allah be pleased with him.  If it did happen then show a single comment of Sayyidah Fatimah, and then I will show you from the same narration which you are quoting where the word لَمْ تُکَلِّمْ (She did not utter anything) clearly shows that she never spoke at all.  Is her silence her fault now?  Which aspect are you referring to as her fault?  You keep on saying “We can say…”… Allah forbid!  You got the tongue so say what you may but this is not the way.  You are giving reference of great books but let me tell you something, just read Gulistan of Shaykh Sa’di:

اِذَا یَئِسَ الْاِنْسَانُ طَالَ لِسَانُہٗ

When one runs out of options, his tongue becomes loose

And then you say on top of that you are giving great proofs.  What are your proofs?  Tell us, what are those mistakes?  You uttered the term of “fault” and the second day you retracted it to no fault, and finally the third day, you resorted to ijtihadi mistake.  And just look at what you present as your supporting evidence by saying that – Allah forbid! – even the Prophets make mistakes without any pretext.

[Tr: The possibility of error for Ambiya during Da’wah phase does not exist.  As far as their early learning phase is concerned, then only Allah has the authority to deem it as a mistake]

The reality is that they never err in the matters of Shariah and Da’wah.  It is impossible for them to commit such errors.  You say that they are capable of making ijtihadi mistakes and I say that they do not make ijtihad at all.  They only make ijtihad in the period when they are learning, and that ijtihad too is literal ijtihad, not that of the terminology.

I am now explaining to you two phases of Prophethood; one the initial phase when they are learning and he second phase when they are making Da’wah.  The possibility of error during Da’wah phase does not exist.  As far as their early learning phase is concerned, then only Allah has the authority to deem it as a mistake. The reference you presented of Allama Sayyed Naeemuddin Muradabadi, was the Ummah of Sayyiduna Adam – peace be upon him – present there?  Was he making Da’wah at that time?  This was the matter when he was still in Paradise, and only later he was made Khalifa on the earth.  Use your head!  This was pertaining to the initial stages of learning in Prophethood so errors are possible but when a Prophet comes as a Teacher and Daa’i then there is no possibility of any error. 

[Tr: It is a wahabi approach to accuse the Prophets of faults]

And if you still say that it is possible for them to make a mistake in the matters of Deen, Shariah and Da’wah then that Aqeedah which you are propagating is the Aqeedah of Wahabis and its links are rooted in the movement of Ibn Taimiyah & company.  This is not some new research that you are claiming.  We know and recognize them very well as to who is hiding behind this mask.  We do not utter such things.  Your intellect is really failing you.  For hundreds of years our pious predecessors have been teaching us how to bring about the angle of respect despite the apparent severity of words, and today, you are looking for an opposite angle by saying it is fine to say that she was wrong, and the errors of Prophets does not only occur in one sense but rather in 9 different ways.  I say, then why go through all the trouble publishing the beauty of Kanzul Iman with the regards to the translation of the following verse:

اَللہُ یَسْتَہۡزِئُ بِہِم

Allah (befitting His Majesty) inflicts upon them the consequence of their mockery.

(Al-Baqarah 2, Verse 15)


وَمَکَرُوۡا وَمَکَرَ اللہُؕ وَاللہُ خَیۡرُ الْمٰکِرِیۡنَ﴿۵۴﴾٪

  And the infidels plotted and Allah secretly devised for their destruction and Allah is the best of secret devisers.

(Aale Imran 3, Verse 54)

Pir Muhammad Chishti rahimahullah spent his life defending Kanzul Iman and opened a beautiful chapter.  What is the meaning of all those efforts?  If you do not care then why don’t you translate them as they come and say that it was to forgive his (RasoolAllah) sins

 [Tr: Allah forbid!  Mashhadi saheb is hinting at AlaHazrat’s translation of the following verse:

لِّیَغْفِرَ لَکَ اللہُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنۡ ذَنۡۢبِکَ وَ مَا تَاَخَّرَ وَ یُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَہٗ عَلَیۡکَ وَ یَہۡدِیَکَ صِرٰطًا مُّسْتَقِیۡمًا ۙ﴿۲

That Allah may forgive the sins of your formers and of your lathers on account of you and may complete His favours upon you and may guide you on the straight path. Al-Fat’h 48, Verse 2]

They still persist, that there is a possibility.  I say, even if there is a possibility, but open your mouth only if it did happen.  And what you refer to as ijtihadi mistake then this is not in the matters of shariah or Da’wah but in literal sense during their learning phase.

[Tr: If a daughter asks from her father’s belongings there is nothing wrong in it]

It is mentioned exactly when it happened in its proper context.  What happened here?  If a daughter asks from her father’s belongings then firstly you called it wrong plain and simple, and two days later you said that she was not at fault and then finally it became ijtihadi mistake which happens from the Prophets as well.  You even dragged a pious predecessor of Islam along with you in this issue. 

[Tr: Meaning of Prophets’ infallibility]

First mistake you made was by saying that the meaning of “Prophets’ infallibility” is that they do not have the capacity or ability to make mistakes.  Place Sharh al-‘Aqaid in front of them and its footnotes, open Al-Nibras before them.  Learn the meaning of infallibility where he writes that it is a state where they refrain from sins and they refrain from sins despite having ability.  The citation from Al-Khayali the commentary of Sharh al-‘Aqaid.  You don’t even have the fundamental definitions of our creed and go about throwing mud at great personalities by saying that they are the student of so and so and teacher of so and so.  I say, good for you, by all means, but at least say something befitting a teacher of Islam.  We do not go about bringing anyone down but rather you involved a graying person like me with the youth.  You go about smearing the honour of Ambiya by saying that they commit mistakes etc. in Shariah and Da’wah.  If that was the case then how would the religion have survived?  So listen and do not utter such things.  What wrong did she do?  She did not even say anything!  Let me clarify something here.  Those who have grievances with their elders to an extent that they do not consider sitting next to them to seek clarity on matters, they must also listen, being a Sayyed we do not have monopoly over Ma’rifah, we are here to shower but there is none seeking… 

[Tr: The status of Sayyidah Fatimah is not above the Prophets]

You go about saying that we are raising her status by making her higher than Prophets by refusing to accept the possibility of her error but here we say that no, she is not above the Prophets and we accept the notion of possibility but you are only allowed to say so if really did commit it in the first place.  Did Sayyiduna Ali – may Allah be pleased with him – act on this ijtihad or Imam Hasan act to this ijtihad?  So do not bring the names of contemporary scholars when the matter is pertaining to Khairul Quroon so bring proof and evidence from the Sahaba of that era.  Show us the statement of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq where he said that she was wrong, the statements of Sayyiduna ‘Umar, Sayyiduna ‘Uthman, Sayyiduna Abu ‘Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah and Sayyiduna ‘Abdur Rahman ibn ‘Auf (may Allah be pleased with them all).  The matter happened in the era of the Sahaba and you give the reference of the statement of the scholar of yesterday.  Those who existed in that era did not have the audacity to utter such things nor anyone for ten centuries afterwards, then on what grounds are you saying such things?  Your response is that you could say, and that you said this in response of Shias, if you can then show me a better defence strategy.  You also said that you said it under special circumstances against the Shia then I say, if you had focused your attention on the respect and honour of AhleBayt instead, you would not have resorted to such blunders.  Someone asked my Peer Peerane Peer Dastgeer Ghaus Azam, “What would you do if you were in place of Sayyiduna Mansoor Hallaj and what would say then?”  He replied, “I would have passed through this state 70 times safely.  If Hallaj faced this difficulty in front of Abdul Qadir then I would have protected him the same way a father protects his child in his lap without him uttering anything.”  Reflect and seek wisdom and realize the severity of the matter.  You say that you said it against the Shias.  What kind of debate is this?  My intention is not to rebuke but I would say the roots of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah have their reach to the core of the earth and its branches spread far and wide to the ‘Arsh.  Fools like you will not understand the reality of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, it is befitting for those with heart and wisdom. 

[Tr: Analysis and grading of the narration]

Listen carefully, pick up Kitab al-Thiqaat of Imam Ibn al-Jawzy and look at the criticism of Muhadditheen on this narration, study the works of Imam Nawawi, Allama Badruddin ‘Aini.  They all say that the whole issue revolves around the narration of Imam Ibn Shahab al-Zohri’s narration which is narrated through four chains, by four students.  Of the four, three of those narrations do not have the word at all, except just one.  You went through special Arabic courses but if you do not have time to look and you are too busy lecturing, then ask someone to bring for you the book of Shaykh al-Islam wal Muslimeen Khwaja Qamruddin Siyalwi entitled Madhhab-e-Shia page no. 24 and you will know how to handle issues like this.  All of this which has been passed down only through one of those four chains from Ibn Shahab Zohri, to clarify further, open Imam Jawzy’s book where it is written that the narrators who are on key positions in the narration, Abi al-‘Ainah and Jaahiz, both are Matrook (Muhadditheen prefer not to touch their narrations), and both of them (the narrators themselves) are acknowledging that they fabricated this Hadeeth.  Sayyidah Fatimah did not ask for it at all.  (Urdu poetic proverb) Ghairon se kaha tum ne, ghairon se suna tum ne, kuch hum se kaha hota, kuch hum se suna hota (Tr: You sought from others and chose to listen to others, you should have asked us something and listened to us a little bit).

[Tr: Manner of debate]

When have the AhleBayt asked anyone for anything, for neither RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him) nor any of his offspring have asked for any favours.  From whom did you learn that you can say things like this in response to Shias?  I have tens of replies for Shias for any single objection of theirs.  Bring them in the field and just sit and watch the wrath of Zulfiqar of Sayyiduna Ali when it shines, and how I refute Shias!  (Urdu proverb) Naach na aawe angan tedha (English Equivalent: A bad workman blames his tools).  You go around looking for lame excuses that you were saying this in response to so and so, I say, even if we are faced with their forefathers, we will still not resort to saying anything against the dignity of Sayyidah.  We will refute!  We will do it with the blessings of our teachers’ feet.  We do not boast about it. 

[Tr: Baseless accusations against Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq and its refutation]

They accuse Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq of being an oppressor and rogue.  Do you even have any idea?  I will show you the statement of my forefather Imam Ja’fer Sadiq in Sharh Nahj al-Balaghah of Ibn Abi al-Hadeed where he was asked whether Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq acted as an oppressor or rogue in this issue?  He replied, “Neither was he an oppressor nor a rogue.  He was a Just Imam.  He never did any injustice in this issue as well.”  And here you go resorting to these cheap tactics in order to defend him.  Only those do things like this whose Peer is not Imam Ja’fer Sadiq!  We are Naqshbandi as well, and you should know that better that in our Shijrah, neither a Qadiri’s, Chishti’s nor a Suharwardi’s Shijrah can be complete without Imam Ja’fer Sadiq.  After having these Peers we have no need to fabricate anything fancy. 

[Tr: You unnecessarily caused a nationwide fire]

You unnecessarily caused a nationwide fire.  What you see as mistake, it’s not.  The fault lies within you!  Acknowledge your mistake and let people take a sigh of relief in these trying times of pandemic and put yourself at ease as well.  You are the one at fault here.  You keep on saying that this can be said, that can be said.  So will you go about accusing anyone of anything?  Based on the logic that it is possible for anyone to do anything; be it shirk, kufr, sin etc.  Will you now consider all and sundry to have already committed these things on the basis of possibility?  Can you say to somebody, “You have become a kafir” just like that?  Very twisted logic, indeed!  Whatever evidence you provided, do not exist in any book.  You tried to drag so many pious predecessors into all this, just think!  You don’t have to react.  Imam Azam Abu Hanifah never gave any Fatwa for as long as his teacher Sayyiduna Hammad ibn Abi Sulayman was alive.  You should also have some patience.  Wait for everyone to die then bear all the weight on your shoulders but if you try to act big before your time, you will face obstacles and fall flat.  You are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah so never be afraid, that you will not be able to defend Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah without uttering such disrespectful things.  If a child among the Ahlus Sunnah starts to think like that then I wish I was dead.  Our generations have safeguarded Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah.  I can go on debating an ardent shia for over a 5 hour stretch only on a single subject and refute them with at least ten proofs.  If you are capable of delivering results then why is it you lose your balance, then it is due to your extravagant commitments.  You have taken far more money.  You sound so depressed.  So don’t worry and there is no need to go into depression if Data saheb is there and Ghaus Paak is there for us.  You used to taunt others that they are orphans in knowledge but here it is applicable to you now.  We have our spiritual father whose merciful shade we enjoy, and me being the most inferior of them, I have nothing to boast.  Dear Sunnies, always remember I had debated over the matters of Sahaba and Sayyiduna Ameer Mu’awiyah – may Allah be pleased with them – but I would not have moved forward with it if things did not go out of hand.  That man refused to accept Sayyiduna Ameer Mu’awiyah – may Allah be pleased with him – even as a Muslim.  You may go and replay the debate’s recording.  It was only then that I decided to step into it.  If today, if he had not crossed the limits then I do not debate with Ahlus Sunnah by choice.  But you have crossed the limits by playing foul, and a referee will have to blow the whistle whenever you play foul.  It is foul play to accuse Sayyidah with such words.  And this thing does not fit in the framework of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, not today, nor at any time in future, you can do what you want!  As it is for ijtihadi mistake then both you and your teacher who came in your defence, are wrong.  I say with firm conviction that it is not possible at all for the Prophets to err in the matters of Shariah and Da’wah but only in their learning phase, and that too, it is taken in its (ijtihad’s) literal sense, not the terminology.  You have gone too far to say that Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq was trying to safeguard her from eating a haram morsel.  There can be no greater injustice than what you have just said. 

[Tr: The preferred majority viewpoint of Ahlus Sunnah]

There is something you guys say which I cannot understand, you say that so and so has written such and such.  So what if someone has written or said such and such?  Will it outweigh the preferred majority viewpoint of Ahlus Sunnah?  If someone has written it then it is disrespectful, and we should turn away our gaze and not pay any attention to it.  You are acting like kids, whereas you should know better.  You had challenged me for a debate in that past over the issue and I had told you to have patience, hadn’t I?  You are showing the same impatience even now.  You should know better that if there is a statement which should be dealt with in isolation, you cannot mention it on the Mimbar, post on social media and in public gatherings, for we do not represent the individuals’ viewpoints, which have its place in an academic setting and a classroom setup, with adab and hours of discussion having laid out all its Hawashis and commentaries.  Whenever you are on a public platform or social media then only post our preferred majority viewpoint of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah, and refrain from offering some isolated view with no head and tail.  You go around saying “I can show you in this book and that book”.  We do not even want to look at it.  We do know that there are such statements but the verdict is not based upon individual statements but rather on mainstream viewpoint.  The foundation of Hanafi Fiqh is based upon Zahir al-Riwayah, is it an isolated statement?  It is Al-Mabsoot, Al-Ziyadaat, Al-Jame’ al-Sagheer, Al-Jame’ al-Kabeer, Al-Siyar al-Sagheer, Al-Siyar al-Kabeer of Imam Hasan al-Shaybani.  This is Zahir al-Riwayah.  How can you forget all about our mainstream view and resort to an isolated view in someone’s statement, and then jump about it.  And whose books you resorted to showing the statements of?  Of someone who has no clue as to whether the length of Shar’i beard is one fistful or not, is there an evidence proving the physical Noor of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him?  Did you see the results of those debates?  If you rely on their proofs then this will be the inevitable outcome.  It does not suit you to utter things like these.  They are the scholars of yesterday, who are good, we are not saying anything bad about them but bear in mind that this issue deals with Khairul Quroon, the first blessed era, it is about Sahaba.  If you cannot prove it from Quran or Hadith then at least show some proofs in the statements of Sahaba (Athar) whether it was by said by Maula Ali – may Allah be pleased with him, Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddeeq, Sayyiduna ‘Umar or ‘Asharah Mubashsharah or Badri Sahaba or those that were present at the Bay’ah of Ridwan (may Allah be pleased with them all) who said such and such things about her, that she should not have said things like that and she was wrong.

It is like you climbed the tallest minaret of Pakistan when you made these statements but when it comes to presenting your proofs then you descend into the deepest hole you could find!  If you can talk so big then bring proofs as great that match your claim.  I am not bringing the view of Pir saheb Qiblah into this because it has not been over 100-150 years since his time.  Why is it that those in front of whom all of this took place, why are they keeping silent?  Bring their statements in front of me.  Bring the statements of Asharah Mubashsharah, and there are so many great Sahaba; such as, Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbas bring their statements before me.  Do not act like kids, it is not Disneyland.  It is a matter of research, not child’s play.  You went and brought the statement of a Buzurg who recently passed and showing me that he wrote such and such.  I say, did it occur in his lifetime?  He wasn’t even there when all this happened.  What is the meaning of bringing proofs from the tenth century AH in this regard?

[Tr: One who sees the reflection of RasoolAllah in the pure nature of Sayyidah Fatimah, he will never utter the word “Khata” or mistake]

Let me give you a proof from Sayyiduna Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, pick up Bukhari, he said, Look for Muhammadur RasoolAllah among his family (AhleBayt).  You will see him in Imam Hasan and Husain.  This is what he is implying.  It is mentioned in Bukhari shareef.  One who sees the reflection of RasoolAllah in the pure nature of Sayyidah Fatimah, he will never utter the word “Khata” or mistake.  This is disrespectful.  Whoever cannot seem to grasp it must get it in their heads. 

[Tr: Learning phase of the Ambiya and Sahaba]

If someone says without a pretext that a Prophet or Messenger made a mistake, it is the utterance of kufr.  We are not talking Khata ijtihadi, so tomorrow you may go about finding an excuse of bringing it up.  I have clarified it that it was pertaining to the learning phase, not the time when they established the Shariah or Da’wah.  The example you brought mentioned in the verse:

وَقُلْنَا یٰۤاٰدَمُ اسْکُنْ اَنۡتَ وَزَوْجُکَ الْجَنَّۃَ وَکُلَا مِنْہَا رَغَدًا حَیۡثُ شِئْتُمَا ۪ وَلَا تَقْرَبَا ہٰذِہِ الشَّجَرَۃَ فَتَکُوۡنَا مِنَ الظّٰلِمِیۡنَ﴿۳۵﴾

  And We said, “O Adam dwell you and your wife in this paradise and eat freely thereof where you will, but do not approach this tree lest you become of the transgressors.

(Al-Baqarah 2, Verse 35)

It was prior to the existence of the Ummah.  He was still in Paradise.  He had not even come down on the earth and people were yet to be born for him to practice his Prophethood.  If all of it did not happen then why are you carrying on about it?  You cannot prove anything like this (Hindi proverb) Kahin ki eent kahin ka roda, Bhanu mati ne kunba joda (Tr: It’s not an amateur DIY stuff that you can do as you see fit by bringing bricks from one place and stones from somewhere else that do not go together and build a house).  You took the head from somewhere and the tail from another place, half word each and present it as a proof.  It is for this reason we tell Shias about it that the Sahaba also had their learning phase and there may be many things these Shias drag it into debate.  They used to do this and that etc.  I say it was as Allah Almighty states:

اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ امْتَحَنَ اللہُ قُلُوۡبَہُمْ لِلتَّقْوٰیؕ لَہُمۡ مَّغْفِرَۃٌ وَّ اَجْرٌ عَظِیۡمٌ ﴿۳﴾

 Those are they whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them is forgiveness and great reward.

(Al-Hujurat 49, Verse 3)

Show me if there is any weakness after this stage!  And far as their training days are concerned then none can become Abu Bakr Siddeeq on the first day!  Do you understand?  It was their learning and training phase.  The Prophets do not learn from the worldly teachers but they learn from their Lord.  And if Allah Almighty says something to them in that classroom setting, then it means only as far as Allah Almighty has stated, we cannot elaborate its meaning now.



(Tasleem Sabri speaking…)

Huzoor, apart from the questions I had written down to ask you, you have also answered even those that were further from the reach of my intellect.  There are however two minor things I seek clarity on, one that people have been requesting that the Muftis and Ulama should place a verdict on it, why are they shying away from it?  Is there no such thing or that the matter is beyond Shariah parameters?  How would you respond to things like these that are being said?  Would you place a verdict on it?



(Shah Saheb speaking…)

[Tr: We are not those to cause a fire but those who put it off]

Sabri saheb, what you have just said.  As teachers, we have been teaching the lesson and leave little chance for someone to pose a question.  There is something called answering something before it could surface and cloud the mind.  What you have asked afterwards is a fundamental question.  In this regard, I would like to address those who have asked the question and those youngster Ulama who have resorted to some rebellious measures, do not try so hard to seek personal verdict, otherwise there will be chaos.  If we are saying that it is disrespectful then you are wise enough to assess that it is not hard for us to pass a verdict on blasphemy, but we do not need bloodshed nor fitnah and fasaad.  Understand the sensitivity of the matter.  It would take less than a minute to pass a verdict if required.  I know that you put people into fitnah and caused bloodshed among the Ummah.  And your mission seems to set this country on fire, it’s not what we do.  My father used to say that we are Sayyed, and as Sayyed, if we step into a fire, we transform it into a garden.  We are not those to cause a fire but those who put it off.  You may call it my weakness but if you have some wisdom then you can understand it from the mere fact that we are calling it an insult and it will not take much to place a verdict on it but we leave it to those who are in proper position to pass the verdict.  If they pass a verdict then SubhanAllah, which will save the country from fitnah and the issue will also be resolved at the same time.



(Tasleem Sabri speaking…)

Huzoor, as we know that you spent your life debating as well as we have seen you tackle the issue surrounding Fadak.  I searched for it last night where you mentioned the reference of Ihtijaaj al-Tabrasi and the narrations of Kaafi but he chose the book of Peer Mehr Ali Shah Saheb in order to refute the Shias which goes against the principles of debate.  Was it due to his lack of knowledge or was it done with some ulterior motive?  Secondly, is it not possible to disapprove her infallibility without accusing her of doing some wrong (ijtihadi)?  We do not consider her as infallible but we regard her as someone who is in divine protection from committing sins.



Shah saheb corrected him:  Sabri saheb, you must rather say “We do not consider her as (Ma’soom Shar’i) infallible by Shariah standards”.

[Tr: Ummah is Ma’soom]

By the way, I will tell you this much.  They are youngsters and are getting carried away in saying these things.  It is mentioned in all Fiqh texts, his life was Ma’soom, his assets are Ma’soom, his Ummah is Ma’soom collectively.  It is for this reason that its Shahadah is accepted.  It was the very subject of the verse:

وَکَذٰلِکَ جَعَلْنٰکُمْ اُمَّۃً وَّسَطًا لِّتَکُوۡنُوۡا شُہَدَآءَ عَلَی النَّاسِ وَیَکُوۡنَ الرَّسُوۡلُ عَلَیۡکُمْ شَہِیۡدًاؕ

  And thus We made you exalted among all nations that you may be witnesses to the people and this Messenger your guard and witness.

(Al-Baqarah 2, Verse 143)

Ummah’s blood is Ma’soom.  Just pick up the book of Fiqh Ahkam al-Sultaniyyah under the issue of blood money, and under the definition of accidental and deliberate murder.  Even if you look into the Holy Quran, you will find that the person whose life’s protection is the responsibility of the state, and the Shariah does not regard everyone’s blood permissible, but rather Ma’soom.  Their eyes are completely blinded.  They are under the guise of being doctor and magistrate and what not.  By all means, may Allah keep your status safe.  We do not challenge it.  All we demand is respect.  Salvation does not lie in your degrees but it lies in adab.  I want to reiterate it.  First you need to clarify that you do not consider her Ma’soom Shar’i and then go on.  Allah Almighty states in the Holy Quran:

وَاللہُ یَعْصِمُکَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ؕ

  And Allah will protect you from the people.

(Al-Ma’idah 5, Verse 67)

[Tr: Ma’soom vs Mahfooz]

What is the meaning of the root word عصم in the verse?  It means protection.  It simply means that Ma’soom means protected, and I have described the difference in detail previously with reference to Allama Parharwi’s definition with its distinction between necessity and permissibility.  Only a man of knowledge appreciates the difference between the two.  Words only scratch the surface, for the meaning of ‘Ismah is protected.  I taught it in Usool al-Shaashi that the first meaning your mind stops at, that is the real meaning of the word.  So the real meaning of Ma’soom is Mahfooz (protected).  The difference is Ma’soom is Qat’i (definite) whereas Mahfooz is Zanni (indefinite).  It is an internal difference.  In our Punjab they say, a son will always remain a son, no matter how old he may become.  I give you the Sadaqah of Sayyidah Fatimah’s feet’s dust, understand it now…. If you want to see any further then study it in Tohfah Ithna ‘Ashariyyah by Allama Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlawi who is my roohani father in the field of Hadeeth.  He also wrote that one should not be carried away by the simplicity of the word Ma’soom for there is none Ma’soom Shar’i besides the Ambiya and Angels…



(Tasleem Sabri speaking…)

Huzoor, there are just few more issues.  It has been quite late now.  We are less in status compared to the AhleBayt, but what are the implications of accusing a Sunni like me, the Ulama or the AhleBayt of being a Shia?  Is it not a sin?



(Shah Saheb speaking…)

[Tr:  Implications of accusing a Sunni of being a Shia]

One who believes in the necessities of Deen, now, to call such a person a deviant, it is one of major sins in the Shariah of Islam.  Such a person is stripped of all authorities of giving Fatwa or any verdict.  Why is that so?  He loses his credibility.  I would like to tell everyone this, whoever you talk about in this fashion by calling them Shia, then for as long as you did not clearly find them deviating from any of the necessities of Islam¸ then to say such things about them is utter ignorance and misfortune.  It is forbidden and such a Mufti who goes about taking people out of the folds of Islam, he can be condemned.  I would like share a piece of advice that if you are in favour of Ahlus Sunnah Hanafi Matureedi to flourish then approach someone who has different ways but not in Aqeedah, but rather in the way he may present himself or has connection with someone which he can fairly justify, then if you still strive for his reform, do not approach him by taking harsh measures, for it will not result positive.  People are born free from their mothers’ wombs, they are not born as your slaves nor does it suite you to go about enslaving people and be on their case.  If you want to rule over someone’s head then start by approaching his feet, and if the person feels that your intention is not to crush his head but you wanted to massage it then he will allow you.  One must firstly feel comfortable with you and know that you are sincere.  Understand this much that extremism does not solve anything.  There is nothing in division.  It is for this reason that I stopped inviting you to conferences because you were being extreme.  These were my words during the conference that I need not the chopping block of a butcher but rather the needle of Baba Fareed which can unite the damaged hearts.  We need more of those who can unite, and for that, all you need is love and compassion for the Ummah and sincerity.  There should no show off.  It is only then you start to see the fruits of your labour.



(Tasleem Sabri speaking…)

You have clarified everything with proofs and ample evidence very clearly.  My last question is related to our previous session with Hazrat Shah Saheb which lasted for about 20 minutes and was circulated worldwide.  You mentioned something special in that speech, although your entire discourse was very emotional.  I was in tears when I was listening to it at home and I have listened to it many times.  You placed your fingers on a nerve which is a major need of our time, that when you make an attempt to shake the balance of things then you cannot prevent the avalanche that you are attempting to put a stop to it.  Both extremes; Shiasm as well as Khawarijsm will only spread.  I have a paper in my hand which was written to highlight the contributing factors behind writing the book under discussion “Tasfiyah ma bain Sunni wa Shia”.  I would like to pass it on to our listeners and those youngsters that it was the very reason which motivated him to write the book.  I will read it for them and then I would like Shah Saheb to comment on it.  It has been said by Jalali saheb that they will include this book in their Madressa Syllabus, then it is only fair that we also familiarize ourselves with the reason for which the book was written in the first place.  Pir Sayyed Mehr Ali Shah Saheb says that the fundamental conflict between the principles of Shia and Sunni is not a new subject which the seekers of truth in the current should beg the contemporary Ulama to clarify but these difference have risen time and time again in the past as well and the Ulama have been guiding us in this regard.  He writes further… It has taken a new turn in our time and people have started thinking that in order to adhere to Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah one must prove their hatred for AhleBayt and love for Umayyads despite the fact that Ahlus Sunnah never aligned themselves with such misfortune.  It is in their Aqaid to have love and reverence for AhleBayt as mandatory.  The reason behind this seems to be our Ulama’s response to Shias’ way of lecturing only resorted to defending the Sahaba whom the Shias insult and curse, and have reduced their focus on expounding and extolling the virtues and excellence of AhleBayt.  Some friends of mine approached me and informed me of this trend that the love of AhleBayt is being reduced in the teachings of our Ulama.  You should write a book on the topic which motivated me to write the book “Tasfiyah ma bain Sunni wa Shia”.

You must have read it Huzoor, I just wanted our listeners to hear it.  So the real motive behind was not only to refute the Shias but rather it was more focused on refuting the Nasibiyyat (Kahawarijsm/Salafism/Najdism/Wahabism), so our youth who were running further and further away from the love of AhleBayt, may come back to realize the status of AhleBayt.  It was the very objective behind writing this book.  There is a widespread Shia-phobia among our Ulama in our society.  Wherever our Ulama praise the AhleBayt then they are quickly blamed for being Shia.  As you had highlighted that when the balance is shaken by extremely supporting one side and refuting the other, but here we find it completely contrary to it when we read the reason that the book was originally written to address.  The book is written to refute Nasibiyyat more.  We accept that the shiasm is also one of the big challenges of our time but Nasibiyyat also remains as a great threat.



(Shah Saheb speaking…)

[Tr: The Research of Pir Mahr Ali Shah]

I would like to say that Hazrat Pir Mehr Ali Shah Saheb did not only write this book.  He was a great research scholar of the time.  The books that he has authored, his style is very unique and took the standards of research to new heights.  He wrote against all pressing issues; be it the fitnah of Khatm Nubuwwah, in defense of AhleBayt and Sahaba, and even on the issue of Taqdees Uloohiyyat (the Divine Glory of Allah in Islamic theology).  He even wrote the refutation of an author by the name of Ibrahim Manamiyan who was from Lucknow.  He wrote the book in his refutation from here, even though Lucknow is far away from here.  (Sabri saheb interjecting… is it the same person who is famous as Lucknow’s Mujtahid?  Shah saheb said, “No.  It’s not the same person.”)  He was a Soofi on the matter of Wahdat al-Wajood (The Only Divine Existence of Allah [it is an intricate topic of Tasawwuf]) which is a topic on its own.  AlaHazrat Golarwi (Pir Mahr Ali Shah) saheb Qiblah himself was one of the supporters of the Aqeedah of “Wahdat al-Wajood”, for he was Chishti Nizami, as you should know.  The rectification that was required in this regard, his standard of research in this regard is so high that any man of knowledge who has the opportunity to study it, finds himself in another spiritual state.  Whatever he wrote in his book Tasfiyah he did it in a manner that is befitting his style and clarified every matter of concern in great detail.  Allah Almighty had blessed him with the ability.  What he mentioned in his writing where he mentioned the reason which motivated him to write this book, it was mainly the lack of the Ulama on extolling the virtues of AhleBayt, that they were failing to deliver it since they were not motivated enough to do it in the first place.

[Tr: Honour of Sahaba and love of AhleBayt]

I would like to narrate to you something my respected father used to do.  When he participated in a gathering in our area of Punjab which is a place where people from all different walks of life.  A large number of Ulama who were his students as well as other contemporary Ulama used to be there.  When he appointed the lecturers to go on stage then he would encourage the non-Sayyed Muballighs to speak, briefly or however time and situation allowed, on the virtues of AhleBayt and then he would encourage the Sayyeds amongst the Ulama, and I happened to be his son, a Sayyed as well, he would tell us that we should speak on the virtues of Sahaba.  This is how he would distribute our responsibilities.  One day, I said to him that it is my heart-felt wish to speak on the virtues of AhleBayt.  He then explained to me that he does not force us into refraining from it but it is about adab.  I feel that if a Sayyed himself praises the AhleBayt with his own mouth then there might be some people amongst the listeners who may doubt the sincerity of your intention, that by this you are trying to impress them to boast about your own status, for being a Sayyed, if I start mentioning the rights of AhleBayt etc… So it is all to safeguard people from having these kinds of thoughts.  I thought it would be wiser for Sayyed to praise the Sahaba and non-Sayyed praise the AhleBayt.  This way, all this can be avoided.  This teaching of my beloved father I entrust to all of you.  This is how he fashioned us, even though he is a Sayyed himself.  If there is so much fitnah around, it is not wise to address the matter only when there is a fitnah but the preventative measures should be there at all times to avoid these situations.  Our Pir Hazrat Mijaddid Alfe Thani who was from Silsilah Mujaddidiyyah, all Ahlus Sunnah look up to him with respect.  He wrote in his Maktubat it is from amongst the critical factors of being a Sunni to establish a perfect connection of love and reverence with AhleBayt as a Sunni and it is also a condition of being a Sunni to honour the Sahaba of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  The honour of Sahaba and love of AhleBayt are the foundation blocks to qualify as a Sunni, otherwise anyone who fails to meet the criteria of honouring the Sahaba or loving the AhleBayt is not a Sunni at all.  Our pious predecessors never compromised it even for a moment but it is in some of our people’s minds which has caused situations like this before our eyes.  Both, the AhleBayt as well as the Sahaba, are the people who have been groomed by our beloved Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – through his hard work, they are our guide as Ahlus Sunnah, they are the minarets of Noor for us.  What have we to gain by causing this conflict between the two?  We will only be deprived.  Instead of arguing about these things, we are forever in need of our connection with Sayyiduan Abu Bakr Siddeeq as well as the love for AhleBayt.  It is the statement of the Holy Prophet – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him:

مَنْ اَحَبَّ ھٰذَیْنِ یَعْنِیْ الْحَسَنَ وَالْحُسَیْنَ وَ اَبَاھُمَا وَاُمَّھُمَا کَانَ مَعِیْ فِیْ دَرَجَتِیْ فِیْ الْجَنَّۃِ

One who loves Imam Hasan and Husain, and their father and mother, will be with me in Jannah in the same station as mine.

(Jame’ Tirmidhi)

On the other hand, he stated:

اِقْتَدُوْا بِالَّذِیْنَ مِنْ بَعْدِیْ اَبِیْ بَکْرٍ وَّ عُمَرَ

Follow Abu Bakr and ‘Umar after me.

This is the disciplinary teaching of our beloved Mustafa – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.  This is the system he imparted with us and we love this system more than our lives.  We do not want to lack on either side, and why do it in the first place, for they are the requirements of our Iman.  They are our guide.  We are the people who recite Durood and Salam and we live our daily lives in the shade of their love.  This is what is unique about Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah.  We do not have a right to incline towards one side or the other, it will only cause more and more fitnah for Ahlus Sunnah.  We continue our journey with the love of both as Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah.  As AlaHazrat has said:

اہل سنت کا ہے بیڑا پار اصحاب حضور

نجم ہیں اور ناؤ ہے عترت رسول اللہ کی

AhleSunnat ka hai bera paar Ashaabe Huzoor

Najm hain aur naao hai ‘Itrat Rasoolullah ki

Ahlus Sunnah are to attain salvation through the Sahaba of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him – as our guide while we safely board the ship of the AhleBayt of RasoolAllah – may Allah send peace and blessings upon him.



(Tasleem Sabri speaking…)

Indeed, this is the unique identity of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah to honour all the Sahaba and love the AhleBayt.  This is the only thing that will lead us towards unity and harmony.  It should be seen that today’s meeting was not conducted to instigate further conflict but rather to safeguard the Ummah from conflict, and for us to reunite and join forces.  Whatever Hazrat Shah Saheb and Qiblah Pir Saheb said was to sail the Ummah away and out of this conflict.  If people are blaming us for prolonging the discussion and are trying to cause more conflict, then no, it is quite evident from today’s discussion for anyone with common sense, that it was not to cause conflict but only to safeguard the Ummah from any discord and conflict.